KDE+M$=?
November 23, 2006
I have been pondering as of late about KDE being able to run on the M$ Kernel. What are the benefits of this upcoming capability? What exactly does it mean to the KDE FOSS community? What changes in the KDE community are going to take place as a result? What brought these questions to the forefront of my mind was two separate events.
The first thing that got me thinking was a comment that a friend of mine made on IRC while we were working together. He had said I can’t wait until KDE runs on M$ then there will be so many talented people who will contribute to our project. This in it’s self did not cause me to take pause or even feel compelled to create this blog. It was something else ever so subtle that I read in aseigos blog post entitled “thoughts on framing “kde.”“(ironic title IMO.)
Once Aaron Seigo proudly took his job at Trolltech he became their most influential and flamboyant spokesperson they have in the KDE community. This is not to say that this is a good or bad thing. It just is what it is. After reading this lengthy and obviously prepared statement posted by Aaron to his blog. My thoughts returned to the statement my friend made on IRC. Then on how this subject of separating the applications from the core was brought up during akademy 2005. If most of the applications from the KDE base have been successfully removed how exactly will they gain this huge exposure? The developers of existing “KDE” applications seem to be expecting this massive influx of contributors and if their apps are in fact still bundled rightfully so? Unfortunately this does not look like it may be the case! So this got me wondering. How might a move like the one outlined in the statement Aaron posted coupled with the movement to remove apps from the base effect the greater KDE FOSS community?
KDE is in the rawest state Trolltech’s Qt demo-ware. It always has been. KDE and the apps included are meant to say look what you can do with Qt. You can create anything you want with Qt for free! Unless you want to sell it, then it’s gunna cost ya. It is a very successful and sound business model that has worked very well for Trolltech. It made perfectly good business sense to bundle as many examples as they could into KDE while it was a Linux only DE. It truly was a win win situation. So why would they now propose to separate the examples out of the base?
They want to make a bunch of money on this ability to boot on top of the M$ kernel. Who wouldn’t? They want to sell Qt licenses to developers of proprietary software. Software that may even do similar if not the same things that the FOSS examples already do. The M$ user base will welcome these new programs that are able to interconnect so easily and pay the developing companies for them. Ta Da! Trolltech and their stock holders will be rolling in the dough. In the end the KDE FOSS community will get the shaft and struggle to make sure their GPL’d code is kept out of the proprietary programs. Now that is the real change that the KDE FOSS community may be facing with this port to the M$ Kernel. Not an influx of willing contributors! You can expect the push to remove the apps to come to a boiling point in the near future. For the time being Trolltech probably will turn up the heat just enough to make everyone cozy and comfortable with the idea. Just wait until there is a gentle proposal from one of many to change the name of KDE to something more “marketable.”
November 25, 2006 at 10:06 pm
I think that making KDE apps cross platform is a great idea. Here’s an example of why. Quanta and the whole family of plugins and related programs should be packaged up and made cross platform as a development suite. It is by far the best web development platform for the money anywhere. I think it would quickly become popular with the developer crowd and most importantly would allow me
to work with others on my development projects without forcing OS migration which is often not an option for developers(dependence on proprietary tools, company policy, you name it). I think it would be a uniting force that would further blur the lines between OS’s, encourage interoperability, and hopefully make it easier for people to migrate to Linux.
November 25, 2006 at 10:36 pm
I have been a long time proponent to cross-platform apps as in all reality, the apps and one’s data are what are important to anyone, the operating system follows this order as one picks the system that brings the most benefits based on cost to the table. However, the one thing that irks me about having cross-platform apps that move to Windows is that usually, the FOSS operating systems begin to lagg behind the commercial operating systems when it comes to features. This typically isn’t the case for community driven projects, but apps such as Skype and Yahoo Messenger are certainly great examples of this. So, if the apps will stay on par to ensure true interoperability as well as vanilla features, then I’m all for another OS to welcome my favorite desktop environment. However, I will say that I would never choose the MS-KDE environment as a Windows powered desktop is generally not cost effective for me. After all, all of the applications I use are already on Linux, so I simply use KDE as an environment to manage them.
Haz
November 26, 2006 at 12:37 am
It is true that the cross platform capability of KDE apps should be promoted as it is incredible. However this may very well be be the subtle first step in the process of removing the bundled apps from the core. The language asiego used in his blog post is a very “around the bush” way of proposing exactly what was talked about at akademy 2005. The idea then was to remove the bundled apps and it was not well received. If Trolltech succeeds in separating the bundled apps from the current base it is considerably less likely for the applications to have any visibility. So go for it promote the cross platform capabilities it is a great marketing tool. But be careful and if possible do not to allow the separation of the apps from the core. The independent naming of applications has already moved the apps away from being directly associated with KDE. I don’t think Trolltech want’s the baggage in the brave new M$ world. What profit can they make if most of the apps people need are already in place. What incentive would proprietary program developers have to buy up licenses? All of this all is already in motion and they will succeed this is Trolltech were talking about here. I just think it is sad that a lot of people think this KDE+M$ capability is the second coming. I see trouble for the FOSS KDE applications not a massive wave of fresh new devs.
November 26, 2006 at 7:34 am
They won’t be porting everything, just a few programs, to let people taste about how KDE can be. If you want those programs to look cool, you have to move to KDE, because they won’t be porting desktop to windows. But I think if program/parts like KMail and KHTML/Webkit are ported, it will give people the oportunity to try those on windows. KHTML/Webkit port will be good, because a lot more webdesigners can test there website under windows. Making sure there website runs under KDE and Safari. KMail is the next alternativ to thunderbird, which I personaly don’t like. So being able to use it under windows, would remove at least one hurdle of moving away from windows. And ofcourse it is good publicity, being able to use KOffice instead of only OpenOffice. But what I’m waiting for most are Klondite and Kopete, those 2 I miss the most under windows…
November 26, 2006 at 3:36 pm
What I think this indicates is the first baby steps towards the OS becoming irelevent to the application, which is a good thing (I think). Personally, I’d prefer all of my apps to be completely cross platform with hardware choices being just that, a choice about hardware and not Operating systems and hardware like we still have today and that with the advent of virtualization features being built into the cpu’s by Intel, AMD and Sun that the next generation of devs wont even be writing for a specific OS anylonger.
November 27, 2006 at 4:00 am
>In the end the KDE FOSS community will get the shaft
>and struggle to make sure their GPL’d code is kept out
>of the proprietary programs. Now that is the real change
>that the KDE FOSS community may be facing with this
>port to the M$ Kernel.
Nice way to go about fear mongering. The truth isn’t nearly that sensational. Since Qt4 is GPL on X, Windows and OS X, KDE will be too. There’s nothing sinister about it and I think you put way too much conspiracy theories into it.
November 27, 2006 at 7:51 am
>Nice way to go about fear mongering.
I apologize if my thoughts caused you or any one else fear that is not what they were intended to do.
>The truth isn’t nearly that sensational. Since Qt4 is
>GPL on X, Windows and OS X, KDE will be too.
I don’t seem to be able to find where I called the GPL status of Qt or KDE into question. What I did point out is that KDE is demo ware which it is. It is a cold hard fact that Trolltech charges licensing fees to companies that want to use Qt to create proprietary applications.
>There’s nothing sinister about it and I think you put
>way too much conspiracy theories into it.
rofl. I have no idea where you got the idea that making a bunch of money is sinister. Or how conducting an amazingly smart business is a conspiracy.
December 1, 2006 at 10:09 pm
This entry doesn’t make any sense. It lacks logic. Author might need some more reflection.
December 2, 2006 at 3:37 am
I will reflect on that……
December 2, 2006 at 9:54 am
You might not remember, but Aaron was amongst the most sceptical people in regard to porting the KDE apps to Windows. But with Qt 4 being GPL’d there too now, and people dedicated to getting it run on Windows, he can’t just come and tell everyone to stop porting.
So he’s trying to make the best out of it, and shares his thoughts on how to do it in a way that doesn’t hurt KDE’s freedom roots. If you had ever met Aaron in person, you’d know that he’s very passionate about KDE, and only looks to Trolltech as a second thought. And a good thing for Trolltech isn’t necessarily bad for KDE, mostly we’ve both had a benefit.
And no, KDE is not demoware. KDE is a full-fledged, Free desktop environment, and a lot of people prefer it over Windows, OS X or Gnome. It might not be perfect, but it’s certainly usable for everyday use, which you cannot say from real demoware.
I don’t care if Trolltech makes big profits with their proprietary licenses on Windows. KDE is in it for the freedom, not for promoting Trolltech. That’s what Trolltech has a PR department for. And even if they make loads of money, it still benefits KDE because they can make Qt even better. So, nothing to worry about, except if you don’t want KDE to be successful.
December 2, 2006 at 11:59 am
I think, ‘pclessgeek’, it is very foolish and downright nasty to make judgements about people. No single induvidual benefits from it.
December 2, 2006 at 5:56 pm
These last two posts are just plain ignorant. Trolltech pays big time money for people to work on KDE. Do you really think they do it just for the fun of it. Like anything a corporation does it is for the money. Is that bad? Of course not it is great if they can pull it off. It is Demo ware plain and simple. Just because KDE is a very robust and a completely awesome DE does not take away from this fact! The truth hurts! I personally think it is incredibly smart of them to do it this way. I admire them for their business sense. The fact that they are able to make this work in the FOSS community is amazing. I for one applaud their effort. I have never said or even implied that trolltech is sinister or that there is a conspiracy! These are all things most of the comments and Aarons blog in response to mine have tried to spin. I have only stated that they have an amazing business model and a solid agenda. Both compliments.
“Once Aaron Seigo proudly took his job at Trolltech he became their most influential and flamboyant spokesperson they have in the KDE community. This is not to say that this is a good or bad thing. It just is what it is.” Puppet? Where is the puppet?
I even clarified these points and everybody is turning this into some sort of personal attack and it is quite simply not!
This whole post was an opinion about these separate observations.
ends up backing this up in his reply to my post on his blog.
1. My friend on IRC getting excited about an influx of talent from the KDE+M$ port.
2. Aarons blog post about the umbrella effect. Which reminded me about the move to separate the apps from KDE. Only because it was almost identical to the language that was used at akademy 2005 in regards to application separation. Which aseigo
3. The fact that Trolltech has an ingenious business model. That involves them using KDE as Demo ware. What is wrong with that?
4. That separating the apps from KDE COULD turn out to be a bad thing for FOSS developers. Especially due to the KDE+M$ port.
That’s all there was and there was no more!
December 2, 2006 at 10:51 pm
> Puppet? Where is the puppet?
I’m pretty sure the puppet is here:
> After reading this lengthy and obviously prepared
> statement posted by Aaron to his blog.
At least, I would feel offended if somebody tried to make my personal thoughts on something into “an obviously prepared statement” from the Trolls.
> 3. The fact that Trolltech has an ingenious
> business model. That involves them using KDE as
> Demo ware. What is wrong with that?
What’s wrong with that is that Trolltech does not have ultimate control over KDE. They have their share of influence as they lay the basis, but they are not the ones in control. No company is, and that’s the difference between Qt and KDE. Which is why you can’t rubberstamp KDE as Trolltech’s demoware, because KDE doesn’t belong to Trolltech. It’s a seperate entity, even though both are benefitting from each other.
December 3, 2006 at 7:12 am
You guy’s are so completely unbelievable!
1. The puppet does not fucking exist! Get over it folks. Saying it over and over again will not make it magically appear.
2. Control? Who the said anything about control? Yet another magically appearing word?
3. “They have their share of influence as they lay the basis,” Bingo! It’s all about small nudges and getting your people in the right place at the right time.
4. KDE is free as in freedom. Absolutely! It also means it is free as in able to demonstrate the amazing and awe inspiring capabilities of Qt. You are absolutely correct it is mutually beneficial situation. I agree.
December 3, 2006 at 5:51 pm
Ok, you’re right. I’m sorry. Please accept my apologies for misreading your completely puppet-free blog entry.
December 3, 2006 at 7:02 pm
Damn straight! This post is proud to be 100% puppet-free, control-free and conspiracy-free.
rofl
December 21, 2006 at 5:11 pm
I refuse to learn more as my brain is just melting. I am looking forward to the holidays ending this year. Seems outr industry has slowed a lot this year.
December 29, 2006 at 12:15 am
Well, OK! This looks great, Gary!
I am very new to blogs, having used them just a couple of times with students who were already accustomed to writing in them.
But I am excited at the possibility that this medium could help us share lessons, ideas, and materials after MyGateway goes down.
Let’s hear from others.
Jane
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